| mel
boring |
Join us this afternoon
in the AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for an "Open Forum" with Web
Editor Mel Boring. Mel has published some 25 magazine articles and
stories, as well as eight books for the young readers market. He
taught writing for 18 years, while being home husband and parent to
two of his four children, and doing his own writing. He welcomes
your questions on time management, getting started, writer's block,
marketing, writing rights, writing earnings, or anything else you'd
like to discuss. Bring your QUESTIONS to this open
forum.
|
| mel
boring |
The Tuesday afternoon
"Open Forum" will begin promptly at 4 Atlantic/CANADA, 3 p.m.
Eastern, 2 p.m. Central, 1 p.m. Mountain, and noon Pacific. While
you wait for the "Open Forum" to start, feel free to use your ASK A
QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW "MAP" AND THE RED QUESTION
MARK IN ICHAT to post some questions for the discussion
group.
|
| mel
boring |
Good afternoon! Welcome
to this Tuesday afternoon's "Open Forum" session. I'm your
moderator, Mel Boring, and the Web Editor for this site. We're back
for an informal time of answering any questions you might like to
ask, on any subject. So feel free to ask what's on your mind--and
I'll tell you what's on mine! First, please read these
announcements, then we'll get started.
|
| mel
boring |
IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS:
Send questions you'd like answered or discussed by using your "Ask a
Question" icon/button. (It looks like a thought bubble icon, RIGHT
NEXT TO THE RED QUESTION MARK.) The moderator (me, Mel Boring) will
post the questions one at a time in the chat room and do my best to
answer them.
|
| mel
boring |
WARNING: If you don't
post anything at all, SOME of you will be bounced off the system in
15 minutes. TO PREVENT THIS, type something (either a question to
the moderator or even a private message) every 15 minutes to stay
active and remain online.
|
| mel
boring |
Hello, first of all I
have an announcement about a writing contest, sent to me by Audrey
Owens:...
|
| mel
boring |
A Contest Announcement
from Audrey Owen at Writer's Helper: Hello, Looking at your tree or
thinking about a bank? Those might be two
|
| students were
considering entering the latest Editor's Choice writing contest.
They can check it out at |
|
|
|
| critique on his
or her writing -- something of value to |
|
|
|
| mel
boring |
Happy Holidays to you!
And here is our first telling of an unusual Christmas
gift:...
|
| t
green |
hi mel, you asked for
unusual writing Christmas gifts...
|
| t
green |
my husband gave me a
hand-made wooden pen
|
| t
green |
the woodgrain is purple
and blue with gold trim!
|
| t
green |
definately my most
unusual "writing" gift!
|
| mel
boring |
That sounds GREAT to
inspire a children's writer, t green!
|
| mel
boring |
If others of you
received children's writers' gifts for Christmas, let me know, will
you, please?...
|
| mel
boring |
My own was a book, THE
COLLECTED SHORT STORIES OF LOUIS L'AMOUR, VOLUME
1....
|
| mel
boring |
It is FABULOUS! I have
read about six of them so far....
|
| mel
boring |
It is inspiring in me
to write short stories. There was L'Amour, who wrote
hundreds!...
|
| mel
boring |
I once had the
marvelous chance to meet him before his death....
|
| mel
boring |
I was at UCLA in a
workshop, and he was speaking....
|
| mel
boring |
So my friend asked me
if I'd like to meet L'Amour, so he introduced
me....
|
| mel
boring |
L'Amour was in the
corner of the auditorium, at a table with a fan, who had brought a
stack of about 20 of L'Amour's paperbacks....
|
| mel
boring |
And Louie was SIGNING
everyone one of them, with a citation in each! I was really
impressed that L'Amour was a REAL person!
|
| casey |
I got ink for my printer.
Actually, I bought it and gave to hubby to give me for Christmas. He
has no imagination.
|
| mel
boring |
LOL! That's a great way
to get ink, casey!
|
| paulplqn |
I got a gift certificate
to my local Barnes & Noble. Now I have to decide what book(s) to
get. That's the hard part.
|
| mel
boring |
WOW, what a happy
decision, paulplqn!
|
| mel
boring |
Will you get children's
books?
|
| mel
boring |
MJS needs to know: Is
it advisable to submit a manuscript to a publisher a second time? I
withdrew my nonfiction book which an editor at a major publishing
house had requested, then kept over one year. I had no response to
several inquiries as to its status, and do not know if the editor
ever read it.
|
| mel
boring |
I think I would try it,
MJS....
|
| mel
boring |
For one thing, it's
been a long time since you first submitted it,...
|
| mel
boring |
and you might be right,
the editor may never have even read it....
|
| mel
boring |
Secondly, the way
editors change, there may well be a NEW editor at that publisher
now....
|
| mel
boring |
If you submit it a
second time, it might be goodly cautious to say you submitted it
previously,...
|
| mel
boring |
just to cover your
bases. But a new editor won't care if it was submitted
before....
|
| mel
boring |
I wonder what others of
you think? Message me to let me know if you think MJS should
resubmit the ms or not, OK?
|
| mel
boring |
Here's more from
paulplqn about what books to get...
|
| paulplqn |
Tough call as to what to
get, Mel. There are some new titles for the adult audience that
sound fabulous.
|
| mel
boring |
You're right, paulplqn,
and reading good ADULT writing also inspires writing for CHILDREN, I
believe, as with Louis L'Amour.
|
| paige |
I received Margaret
Atwood"s "Negotiating with the Dead" A Writer on Writing. I haven't
read it yet, but MA is a well known Canadian writer. I have just
finished reading her award winning "Blind Assasin"
|
| mel
boring |
I have heard about
Atwood's book, but not read it yet, paige....
|
| mel
boring |
It sounds like she
KNOWS what writing is about, if "Negotiating with the Dead"
is...
|
| mel
boring |
about how difficult it
is to make "dead bones live."
|
| paulplqn |
Perhaps a different
publisher. MJS. Why reward rudeness with your hard earned work?
Don't many large companies hire from within, perpetuating the same
basic practices?
|
| mel
boring |
GOOD point, paulplqn!
THough with publishers, USUALLY more editors are brought in from
OUTside than promoted from inside....
|
| mel
boring |
That' s because they
want to get "new blood" in as much as they can....
|
| mel
boring |
But on the theory that
"there are plenty of fish in the sea," MJS might be JUST as well off
to submit her ms elsewhere.
|
| mel
boring |
MH asks: So children's
books are often banned because of occult focus, gender orientation
(things that reflect the sensitivities of individual people groups)
or inappropriate language, sex, or violence. The government might
censor free speech under a Communist regime or a country like the US
might censor during wartime? Are there other things that cause books
to be banned?
|
|
|
| mel
boring |
This is a follow-up to
the discussion of censorship we had last week, a presubmitted
question....
|
| mel
boring |
There were distinctions
made then between banning and censorship and other
terms....
|
| mel
boring |
MH, you've got the
reasons why books are banned right!...
|
| mel
boring |
And there is an
excellent book called THE THOUGHT POLICE that takes on the issue
of...
|
| mel
boring |
Political Correctness
in publishing. The book lists hundreds of words, phrases and
concepts that publishers prohibit....
|
| mel
boring |
I STRONGLY suggest
reading it for the idea of Political Correctness...
|
| mel
boring |
To my knowledge, the US
GOVERNMENT hasn't gotten involved in any kind of book banning or
censorship....
|
| mel
boring |
But the whole idea of
political correctness is rather disturbing to
me....
|
| mel
boring |
For instance, I am
writing a biography of Albert Einstein, which I've mentioned
previously....
|
| mel
boring |
As a child, Einstein
WAS thought to be "mentally retarded."...
|
| mel
boring |
I know enough of his
native language of German to understand that that's what the phrase
means,...
|
| mel
boring |
"mentally retarded."
But MANY publishers won't let you use that term
today,...
|
| mel
boring |
for fear of offending
people who are mentally retarded, or their
caregivers....
|
| mel
boring |
But to me, it's a bit
like trying to change history to say it in other terms than
"mentally retarded."
|
| mel
boring |
More about whether or
not MJS should resubmit her ms:...
|
| tigger |
For MJS, it might be good
to call the publisher and ask the receptionist if that same editor
is there. If not, ask for the new one's name. I would send it again,
explaining what happened in the cover letter, BRIEFLY, of course. It
is possible that the old or new editor will feel bad about what
happened and respond more quickly than usual. :o) Is that wishful
thinking, Mel?
|
| mel
boring |
NOT wishful thinking,
tigger, but a REALLY GOOD idea!
|
| mel
boring |
Editors are different
as night and day,...
|
| mel
boring |
and I have worked with
MANY who are REAL people, NICE to work with,...
|
| mel
boring |
and only a few who were
not so pleasant to work with. So I think you're onto a GOOD thing,
tigger, thanks!
|
| ben |
that might have pushed
the limits a bit, thinking that an
|
| ben |
editor can always cut
back. No?
|
| mel
boring |
Not really, ben, any
editor can always cut back....
|
| mel
boring |
Though editors are not
as autonymous as might be thought,...
|
| mel
boring |
when they champion a
manuscript, they will fight for it, and do anything they feel needs
to be done to sell that manuscript.
|
| paulplqn |
Is part of Ben's question
missing?
|
| mel
boring |
I wondered that, too.
Could you let us know, please, ben?
|
| paulplqn |
Mel, it seems the media
"bangs the drum" on what is OK. My example is Mr. O'Reilly filing
suit against comedian Al Franken and using his cable pulpit to
spread the word.
|
| mel
boring |
You're right on,
paulpqn! The media do push what is OK!
|
| rite
1 |
I looked up retarded in
the dictionary- means slow or...
|
| rite
1 |
delayed in development or
progress, espec. because...
|
| rite
1 |
of mental
retardation.
|
| mel
boring |
THANKS, rite 1! I've
never done that....
|
| mel
boring |
as long a time as I've
been writing about Einstein....
|
| mel
boring |
To me, political
correctness of the kind that bans using "mentally retarded" is a
form of censorship.
|
| margieh |
Would a publisher be apt
to buy a ms if they like the "story" and then just edit it to make
it "politically correct"?
|
| paulplqn |
The case was literally
laughed out of court and Franken's book became an instant best
seller.
|
| mel
boring |
What a story, paulpqn,
thanks for letting us know!
|
| tigger |
That is a warm, fuzzy
thought, that an editor would fight for a manuscript he or she
likes. Every one of us would love to have an editor "champion" one
of our mss! :o)
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, tigger, and in my
35 years, one of the most HELPFUL things I've
learned...
|
| mel
boring |
is that when an editor
CHAMPIONS your book, you've got the best thing going you could have
at a publisher!
|
| kay
kay |
Mel, As long as a
publisher doesn't say "NO Multiple Submissions," is simultaneously
submitting okay?
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, it is, kay kay,
because if they are against it, they will say
so....
|
| mel
boring |
They might also say
"Multiple Submissions Welcome," but if they don't say anything,
multiply submit to them, I suggest.
|
| mel
boring |
MH is wondering: Would
a YA publisher turn away a nonfiction manuscript that included
excerpts that appeared a hundred years ago but would not be
considered politically correct today if the work were well done in
other respects? Or would it have to be included in the context of
historical explanations to avoid offending someone?
|
|
|
| mel
boring |
A GOOD and prescient
pre-submitted question!...
|
| mel
boring |
I would say that no,
they wouldn't turn away a well done nonfiction
manuscript...
|
| mel
boring |
that approached and
presented the old, politically incorrect issues
SENSITIVELY....
|
| mel
boring |
With Einstein, for
instance, what I'm going to do is to USE "mentally
retarded,"...
|
| mel
boring |
but explain the changes
since then that have made us leery of the term. And I think
sensitivity is the key, MH....
|
| mel
boring |
And of course, it's the
historical context that would sensitively explain the use of a term
like "mentally retarded."
|
| mel
boring |
Here's more explanation
from ben, thanks!...
|
| ben |
I wrote a "risque" novel
w/ the idea that an editor can
|
| ben |
always cut
back.
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, ben, editors will
cut back if they are impressed enough with a
novel....
|
| mel
boring |
They can "tone down"
language that is well used, for instance,...
|
| mel
boring |
and if it's a matter of
their not wanting to use profanity, that's easy to cut
back....
|
| mel
boring |
as long as they see
something in the writing that they can champion.
|
| paulplqn |
Back in Einstein's time,
common terms for the retarded were idiots and mongoloids. The words
used to label should rightly be thought through for all of their
modern interpretations and social consequences.
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, you're right,
paulplqn. In MY younger days, the word "idiot" was used by kids, but
frowned upon....
|
| mel
boring |
We probably wouldn't
ever use it in literature today, except perhaps in dialogue, such as
"You idiot!", I suppose. And it's the LABELING that is a
liability--good thinking!
|
| rite
1 |
Given the meaning in the
dict. doesn't make sense...
|
| rite
1 |
that it shouldn't be used
in my opinion.
|
| mel
boring |
I think so too, rite 1.
If we have to "redefine" the dictionary that kids use, then I think
we're put in a hard place.
|
| paige |
We use "mentally
challenged" now, Mel. For the ones that can read, it doesn't seem so
limiting.
|
| mel
boring |
Right, too, paige. But
"mentally challenged" wasn't used 125 years ago when Einstein was a
boy,...
|
| mel
boring |
so what I think I need
to do is JOIN "mentally retarded" with "mentally challenged" over
the years between,...
|
| mel
boring |
to put it into context
so children today understand it.
|
| paulplqn |
I believe Einstein was
dyslexic, making kearning in the tradional way very difficult. As a
special education teacher, Einstien is always one I mention to
struggling learners.
|
| mel
boring |
I believe he was, took,
paulplqn, by what he said about his "mental
retardation."...
|
| mel
boring |
In fact, I've come to
believe that I, too, was dyslexic as a boy, but nothing was known
about that then.
|
| bettyboop |
I read the book "Thinking
like your editor". They have many questions they ask themselves when
considering a book. (1) category it will be under in the bookstore
(2) what people will buy the book and why (teens, moms, teachers,
etc.) and how much money will the book generate in reprints and how
long will it be a popular subject that is read.
|
| mel
boring |
That book gives a GOOD
look over an editor's shoulder, bettyboop!...
|
| mel
boring |
There are categories in
bookstores where books languish, I'm told by
booksellers,...
|
| mel
boring |
so you'd WANT it to be
shelved in a "moving" category....
|
| mel
boring |
You'd want as MANY
kinds of people to buy the book as possible,...
|
| mel
boring |
for instance,
grandparents, who might not want to see salty language in
books....
|
| mel
boring |
And the BOTTOM LINE, as
you've said, is HOW MUCH MONEY will it earn, and for how
long!
|
| mel
boring |
I highly recommend that
book bettyboop, and I haven't even read it yet!
|
| smitty |
How does one find such an
editor? Is it luck of the draw?
|
| mel
boring |
I think finding an
editor who will champion your book, smitty, IS largely the luck of
the draw....
|
| mel
boring |
You can do some things,
in the writing, to "make the luck" happen....
|
| mel
boring |
But it is largely
"being in the right place at the right time," which does most to get
an editor who will...
|
| mel
boring |
champion your book.
Here's a tip:...
|
| mel
boring |
Go to conferences where
you can MEET and talk with editors....
|
| mel
boring |
It is THERE that many
of them pick up books,...
|
| mel
boring |
and I think it's
because they have a chance to meet the author LIVE!
|
| kay
kay |
I sent an activity piece
to a magazine that I have built a fairly good relationship with.
This mag usually sends a card right away if they're considering it
seriously. I received no card. It has been months past their listed
reply time. I have sent an inquiry once with no reply. I don't want
to write again and seem pushy. What should I do?
|
| mel
boring |
I would PHONE them, kay
kay....
|
| mel
boring |
You'll surely get a
receptionist only, but THEY KNOW what's going on, or can find
out....
|
| mel
boring |
So, find the phone
number and call. You'll be polite, I know of you, and polite is not
pushy....
|
| mel
boring |
They will also
understand, kay kay, why you are concerned. So phone them, I'd
suggest.
|
| mel
boring |
Here's what I think is
the KEY to Einstein and the "mental retardation" we were talking
about:...
|
| paulplqn |
Perhaps...Einstein
learned differently allowing him to see things differently than
others?
|
| mel
boring |
He DID, paulplqn, and
because he "saw differently," he thought up the theory of relativity
that flew in the face of 300 years of science!
|
| tigger |
In the Disnsy movie, 101
Dalmatians, the villain Cruela DeVil uses the word "idiot" often.
She calls the bumbling men who help her "idiots." Just a bit of
trivia. :o) Of course, the kids who see the movie then pick up the
term.
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, they will, tigger,
and kids will take it in the context of...
|
| mel
boring |
the villainous person
Cruela DeVille was, I think--GOOD point!
|
| margieh |
So you might use a word
innocently thinking of it as a descriptor but you have to look at it
twice and anticipate how other people might interpret
it?
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, very TRUE,
margieh! They might not see the word the same way you USED it.
THANKS!
|
| lizr |
- the authors of the book
- Thinking Like an Editor - are giving a free Barnes and Noble
online class again soon.
|
| mel
boring |
THANKS, too, lizr! I
must look into taking that online class!
|
| kay
kay |
Want to pass along good
news. Recently finished my first novel, and today finished the 1st
draft of my 2nd novel. Wish me luck in sending the first
out!
|
| mel
boring |
HURRAY, kay
kay!!!...
|
| mel
boring |
That's a SUPER
accomplishment--and we'll keep our typewriter keys crossed for your
COMPLETE SUCCESS!
|
| kay
kay |
Thanks, Mel. Very kind of
you!
|
| mel
boring |
You're WARMLY WELCOME,
kay kay!
|
| paulplqn |
Again, the negative
connotation of a widely used term.
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, the negative
connotation of terms, like "idiot," are plain, and to kids too, I
believe.
|
| halnic |
Einstein saw so many
possibitities, it took him longer
|
| halnic |
It took Einstein longer
to process all those possibilities
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, halnic, he spent
his life till the age of 30 on the relativity
theories....
|
| mel
boring |
THEN he spent the REST
of his life, till he died at about age 65,...
|
| mel
boring |
trying to find how ALL
of nature, the universe, EVERYthing fits together in a "field
theory," as he called it....
|
| mel
boring |
But he NEVER succeeded
in finding that theory....
|
| mel
boring |
There were those who
said he might as well have just gone fishing for the last 40 years
of his life!
|
| rite
1 |
I've read that editors
don't like animal characters to be...
|
| rite
1 |
named with their animal
name, ex: Ginny the Giraffe went...
|
| rite
1 |
to the
store.
|
| rite
1 |
The editor would rather
you just use their name?
|
| mel
boring |
What editors don't like
about that, rite 1, is the repeated letter,...
|
| mel
boring |
the "G" in Ginny the
Giraffe. It's been overdone, they feel....
|
| mel
boring |
So it's much more
effective to name the character something like "Longneck Giraffe" or
such.
|
| rite
1 |
So would Natasha the
Giraffe be okay?
|
| mel
boring |
Not only okay, but
EXCELLENT, rite 1!
|
| smitty |
He would have been in
remedial classes had they had them
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, Einstein would
have, smitty, and was kicked out of a few of his classes, in
fact!
|
| paige |
Almost all the worlds
"greats" have been labelled "different" Winston Churchill was
thought to be "slow" in school. The saying about each of us marching
to a different drum is true.l
|
| mel
boring |
YUP, you're right,
paige!
|
| mel
boring |
MH would like to know:
If you wanted to use material (for nonfiction) from a high school
newsletter that spans about 100 years but is no longer published
under the same name or in the same format but the school and the
district exist do you need to get permission to use the material and
if so from whom?
|
|
|
| mel
boring |
You wouldn't HAVE to,
MH. But it would be polite, and safe, to get their permission. I
would strongly recommend it!
|
| paulplqn |
There was a recent series
on PBS about this and the current String Theory that
resulted.
|
| paulplqn |
Perhaps a pun or
exageration of a personality trait or
feature....Stretch?
|
| mel
boring |
GOOD quip,
paulpqn!
|
| mel
boring |
MH has this good
question: If you find someone who has experience writing and
publishing something like a history project who's willing to answer
your questions on an ongoing basis and you're doing the research,
writing, and marketing at what point would or should they become the
primary author and when would you just profusely thank them in your
acknowledgement and find another way to profusely thank
them?
|
| mel
boring |
If you just use them
for reference, MH, then a thank-you is in order, as an
Acknowledgement in the book, or even its
Dedication....
|
| mel
boring |
But if THEY are
providing the BULK of the information in the book, then it's time to
list then as co-author, and maybe even share the book's profits with
them. But as long as YOU are in on the book, they wouldn't become
the PRIMARY author.
|
| mel
boring |
MH has this follow-up
question: What do you do with things that were offensive to someone
but reflective of the culture of times past. Do you touch it or do
you not?
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, you touch them, I
think, MH, but explain them within the context, as we've discussed
today....
|
| mel
boring |
So with Einstein, it's
OK to use "mentally retarded" if you explain it in the context of
Germany in the 1870s, and being it up to "mentally challenged" in
the TODAY.
|
| mel
boring |
Albertine e-mailed to
ask: When you want to do an interview for an article that you have
to outline for an assignment, would you first do the interview or
first write the outline?
|
| mel
boring |
I would suggest writing
a kind of outline of QUESTIONS for the interview, Albertine, BEFORE
the actual interview....
|
| mel
boring |
It's important to let
the interviewee talk on their OWN, go where they want to go with the
interview,...
|
| mel
boring |
but it's also important
to have a "structure of questions" that will fill out the article or
book in a complete way.
|
| mel
boring |
Hey, it's past time,
and I must go!...
|
| mel
boring |
THANKS for being here
today, and for your SUPER questions!...
|
| lizr |
Have a GREAT Happy and
healthy start to your new year! May you all acheive all your writing
goals & Enjoy the process!
|
| tigger |
Mel, I seem to remember
that these forums are available as transcripts, right? If so, how do
we access them?
|
| mel
boring |
Yes, tigger. Go to
www.institutechildrenslit.com,...
|
| mel
boring |
they click on "Rx for
Writers," then click on the "Writer Support"
link,...
|
| mel
boring |
and in Writer Support,
the Open Forum transcripts are the last line to click
on....
|
| kay
kay |
Thanks, Mel for helping
me with my ?'s today! Came in late, but from what I've gathered,
you're doing a book about Einstein. Good luck with
it!
|
| mel
boring |
Thank YOU, kay kay! And
for the GOOD LUCK!...
|
| tigger |
Thank YOU for being here,
Mel. Happy New Year!
|
| mel
boring |
HAPPY 2004 to you ALL.
See you next
Tuesday!
|