Tue Mar 18 14:54:05 2003

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Tue Mar 18 16:12:18 2003

Hi! Welcome to this Tuesday Open Forum. I'm standing in for Mel today. Real life intervened, I gather. I'm Mary Rosenblum, web editor for the Long Ridge site, and a Long Ridge instructor as well. Although I don't write children's books, I tutor a lot of kids of all ages, and I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'll do my best to fill Mel's shoes here today, and next Tuesday as well.

guestspeaker

If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!

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Hello, all! I'm delighted to be here with you today.

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Lots of questions! Great!

kay kay

Is it inappropriate to send two different stories to the same magazine for the same theme?

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Not at all, Kay Kay.

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But I wouldn't send them at the same time. If the editor has both your stories on her desk, she will buy the one she likes better and reject the other.

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If you send in one and the editor buys it, then send in the other...she may like it better, buy it, too, and run them some months apart!

kay kay

Is it okay to hand-address envelopes for submissions, or should they be type written?

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I hand address all my subs, Kay Kay. :-) Nobody has ever complained. Only the mailroom people see the envelope -- not the editor.

ranchosmoment

welcome Mary! Hope to learn lots from you today!

paige

Welcome, Mary. Good to have you here.

guestspeaker

Thanks, all. I'm delighted to be here, and I see some familiar names!

kay kay

I am writing a story for a friend about her granchildren. She would like me to add illistration to it. How do I get free or cheap clip art?

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Clearly you're online, Kay Kay. There are many sites that offer a wide variety of excellent clip art for free...

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and some where you have to pay a small fee.

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If you go to google.com, the best search engine, they have an 'images' button at the top of the screen...click on that, then type in what you want a picture of. Voila! Dozens of choices.

jamielee

do you have any tips on marketting my books

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Lots of tips, Jamielee!

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Can you tell me a bit more? What type of book? Self published or published by a NY firm? Small press? The tips vary for each type!

ranchosmoment

It's hard to keep your spirits up, rejection after...

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rejection, Rancho?

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Yes, it certainly is. I've been there, and so has every other published writer on the planet.

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You have to keep telling yourself that your writing is good, that you'll find the editor who values it...

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and that it WILL be published. And that's darned hard to to at times!

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I once got THREE rejections in my mailbox at once, one afternoon. Thought seriously about becoming a plumber!

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A lot of writers never do get published because they let those nasty bits of paper really get to them.

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About all I can tell you is to believe in yourself. If people like to read what you write, then so will an editor, sooner or later. You just keep sending work out there.

cyranogal

Do you have to submit your manuscript w/illustrations?

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It depends on what you are writing, cyranogal.

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Most publishers that I know prefer to buy the ms and match it to a regular artist who has worked for them before.

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But if you want to sell book and art together, then yes, they do have to go in together. From the childrens writers I know...Jane Yolen, for example...

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it is harder for a beginner to sell both art and prose than prose alone. But that may vary with type of book and publisher.

jamielee

it is a e-novel, through eNovel.com. It is a fantasy book

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Ha, I have just the thing for you, jamielee.

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Go over the Long Ridge website: www.longridgewritersgroup.com. In our Writing Craft section, there is a topic called 'Websites and EPublishing'.

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There is an article there titled: Promoting your eBook by Giving it Away. It has some good promotion suggestions.

mbvoelker

Do you know anything about the requirements for photos acompanying articles? We're going to be doing a lot of DIY projects in our new home and I thought they might pay for themselves (and maybe a little more), if I document them and write how-to articles. Will a disposable 35mm camera produce submissions quality photos?

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Yes, Mary Beth, they will. Editors need clear and GOOD photos. I've send in 35 mm snaps and had them published.

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Check out the transcript from Bill Pippin's interview last fall. As I recall, he answered some specific questions on photo submissions.

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And the photos are a big plus, if they're GOOD.

cup

I have a signing coming up. Any tips on do's and don't's?

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Signings are great fun!

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A couple of tips...you might want to be sure that the bookstore where the signing is being held has plenty of copies of your book.

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Or bring extra along, if you're not sure. If someone is interested, you certainly want them to walk away with a book!

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Be ready to answer lots of questions...fans LOVE to ask if you're willing to answer!

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And I always come prepared to do a short (15 minute) reading. Offer to read if the opportunity presents itself.

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Generally, people will be thrilled, and you may acquire several new buyers who were hooked by your reading. So bring something to read that's full of drama or action or is otherwise a good hook!

guestspeaker

If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!

ranchosmoment

When you're writing a book, do you work on mag...

ranchosmoment

articles too?

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Absolutely! At some point during the book, I start to feel as if I've lost my enthusiasm...

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Instead of flogging myself onward, I simply go write a short story...by then something is usually nagging at me.

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By the time I finish the short story, or reach an impasse there, I'm chafing at the bit to return to my novel world! Works for me. :-)

vernaculady

I received 39 rejections in 18 months (for poems) now I've got 5 pending publication...never give up!

kay kay

I also received three rejections in one day. It was just yesterday and boy am I depressed! LOL

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vernaculady, you have the right attitude! Keep sending them out.

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And Kay Kay, let me give you a virtual hug! I STILL remember that day well, and it was over a decade ago!

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But not too long after that, I went from rejections to acceptances. :-) Maybe three in a day is a good omen!

cyranogal

Would you suggest self-publishing over traditional?

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Self publishing, or the new Print on Demand publishing do indeed have their benefits.

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If you're writing a book with a limited or niche audience...orchid fanciers for example...it may be simpler for you to publish the book yourself and market to that niche.

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Self publishing means that you pay for the publishing, the books belong to you, and you get ALL the profit from the sales.

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iUniverse with Barnes and Noble offers Print on Demand, where you get royalties and your books are available to order from B&N and Amazon. However, they are difficult to market to bookstores and you will really have to do all the promotion yourself.

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But they cost much much less to publish than the self publish route, with can involve thousands of dollars up front.

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On June 19, on the LRWG website, a representative of iUniverse will be my guest to talk about Print on Deman with her company. You might drop in to ask questions.

paige

I have written an adventure story about two children and would like to write another about the same two -- perhaps several stories. Would it be possible to tie them together to make a book?

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Very likely, Paige. That's how I've created all three of my SF novels, btw. :-)

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It will really help you sell the book, too, if you've published one or more of the stories as short pieces first.

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Books and short stories involve very different rights, so you can include that story in a book length work later.

ranchosmoment

do you send negatives, the picture itself or slides?

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With today's modern technology, most editors want the actual photo rather than the negative. Sometimes they'll list what they want in the writers guidelines.

monroe

How much time to you spend on your out line? How detailed is

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When I started writing, my outlines were very rough. I knew where I wanted to go and where I wanted to start, monroe.

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I figured the rest out as I went. Now, however, I do a rough outline, then a chapter by chapter outline. I hate first drafts, and this...

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detaileid outline pretty much eliminates it. My 'first' draft reads like a 'second' draft. It usually takes me a week to really set up the chapter by chapter...

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but it saves me a lot of revision time. It's much easier to change things in outline form than rewriting 350 pages or so.

kay kay

How long should I wait after an editors "reply time" is up before inquiring about a piece?

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I'd give them a little lead time, Kay Kay, but not a lot. Maybe 25%. Editors do get behind schedule and replying to subs is the first thing to get set aside in that case.

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But do query politely. One of our website people discovered that her ms had been lost.

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The real bottom line is to be polite. Being rude to the editor, no matter how bad he has been about replying, is not going to benefit you in the long run.

sabian

After a interview how do you decide which quotes are the best to use?

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Sabian, you always want unity in your piece. You're making a point, whether it's that home vegetable gardening is good for the budget...

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or that vacations with kids are worth the headaches. So you arrange your quotes so that...

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point is made clearly and with a logical progression of topics. If you're writing the trip planning article...

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you might start with quotes about selecting destinations, balancing kid wishes with adult needs, move on through the planning stages, and end with quotes about the fun everyone had.

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But the actual statements about kid destinations, for example, might have come up near the end of the actual interview.

ranchosmoment

Rejections must be in the air. I got one yesterday too!

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My sympathies, rancho! One tip that helped me...I have always kept a submission log. Date I send a piece out, destination, postage, time returned and outcome (rejection or acceptance).

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When I started writing, I highlighted the sales with yellow highlighter.

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Now I can flip back through that notebook and see those scarce first yellow lines multiply. It's a great diary of my growth and success as a writer.

cup

How do you begin a first draft of a new story?

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Generally, cup, I just jump in where I think the story begins and start writing. By then I have an outline, so these days I'm pretty sure of where I need to start. But not always...

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Beginnings are very important, and I usually go back and rework my beginning after I've completed the draft, so that it ties in more tightly to the end.

vernaculady

THANKS! They're with the Cricket Mag Group and Hopscotch, so despite no scheduled pub dates, I'm still thrilled...

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Sold already! Good for you!!!

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Nic job, vernaculady.

renie

How do you know when your story is ready to send out ?

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Hi, renie. You know, that's a question that is less of a question as you get more experience.

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The more you sell, the more feedback you get from readers, the better you'll be at saying 'Done!'

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Mainly, listen to that nagging voice at the back of your brain. If it whisperes...'Jenny really isn't a very solid character', then listen to it.

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But don't get caught in the trap of never ending revision. Some very good writers I know have published only one or two works because they revise forever.

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Don't confuse the sense of a real weak spot with a fear of rejection!

ekuffmom

When is the appropriate time to look for an agent?

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Ekuffmom, it's generally AFTER you sell your first book.

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You don't need an agent to sell short fiction and nonfiction. But you DO for a booklength work. Problem is, most GOOD agents really don't want many unpub. writers. Too much work for too little money.

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So if you can send your book out without an agent, do it. Start querying agents after you have an acceptance in hand. BUT many publishers will not take unagented ms.

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If that's the case, then when you're ready to submit, you'll have to query agents first.

casey

When submitting non-fiction, we include a biblio. For fiction, would it be a good idea to include in cover letter the source where I verified a fact?

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If your fiction story depends on a fact, then I would mention the source, or your credentials....

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If you're writing a mystery set in a zoo, for example, it would be very good if you could tell the editor that you'd been a zookeeper for ten years.

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If the fact is not critical to the story, it's not necessary.

ranchosmoment

Do you recommend online critique groups?

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rancho, I recommend critique groups, period! I must say that I have reservations about crit groups where people post their story in some publicly accessible place.

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I would worry too much about plagarism. If you're exchanging ms with your other members only, that's much safer. And I'm trying to figure out how to set up some...

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online critique groups over on the LRWG website. The private rooms feature is a natural for it!

kay kay

As far as piecing stories together, do you put them in as seperate stories, or somehow tie them all together in one big, ongoing plot?

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I've seen it done effectively both ways, Kay. In my own case, I blended the stories into a single novel. They became chapters, for the most part.

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But you can also linke stories with a theme or overarching plot thread to tie them together. Christine Collier's first mystery (from iUniverse) is a series of four short stories that share the same characters.

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It's very effective.

kay kay

When listing writing credits in a cover letter/query, do you list EVERY credit, or only those similar to the piece you're now proposing?

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If you have LOTS of writing credits, Kay Kay, then your editor proabably knows who you are already! :-) I'd list a few pertinent ones. 'I've published fourteen stories, including, About the Bear, another story set in Native American culture'. Or something like that.

ekuffmom

Can you submit to more than one editor at a time, or should you wait for them to answer before sending it on to another?

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Well, supposedly, you can't sub to more than one editor at a time, ekuffmom, unless the magazine accepts 'multiple submissions' (or book publisher, for that matter). Buuuut....with the long response time so many editors use...

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that can really bog you down. The reason is this...if an editor accepts your ms, he or she has AlREADY scheduled it for publication. If you say 'oh, sorry, I sold it already' then Editor has to find...

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another story of about the same length to replace it, or rearrange the magazine. Or renegotiate the year's schedule in the case of a book publisher.

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You will have seriously ticked off that editor. Will it hurt your career?

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Not if you turn into the next JD Rowling! But if you're just beginning to sell...

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then you have one annoyed editor here, and editors DO talk to each other!

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So it's up to you. Lots of writers do it, and once in awhile, someone gets 'caught'. Gee, two acceptances for the same piece is a nice thought, huh?

mbvoelker

I am a little over 1/3 of the way through my first draft and have revised my outline 4 times so far.

guestspeaker

Wow! Well, everyone has very different styles of writing.

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My very close friend, an ex ER Doc revises paragraph by paragraph. Drives me nuts! But when she finishes that 'first' draft...which takes her about a year...she has a book that is ready to send off.

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While I will do three drafts, most of the time. Which way is better? Neither. Whatever works.

kay kay

One way I've positively dealt with one of my rejections from yesterday is now I am going to work it into a nonfiction book idea I have!

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Great, Kay Kay. Another method that has worked for me is to find FIVE markets when you first get ready to send something out.

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Put a list of editor names and addresses in the file with your story. If it comes back from market #1, check that one off, then send it THAT DAY out to #2.

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It's harder to be depressed if the story is on another desk!

senicynt

I understand that an agent is mainly needed for contracts, not submissions. How does this work?

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Actually, as I mentioned, they are often needed for submissions, and an agent is a much more effective 'submitter' than you are.

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Agents develop working relationships with editors. Mr. Editor likes most of the books Ms. Agent sends him. So he reads them first before he reads the unagented 'slush' pile.

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So your ms gets personal attention and the expectation that he will like this book because it came from Ms. Agent.

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This is why you want a good agent with a good reputation with editors!

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As to the contract...my last novel contract was 7 legal size pages, covered on BOTH sides with 10 point single spaced font. My agent had made changes in about 1 line out of 5.

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THAT is why she gets 20% of my pay. There are dozens of things that you need to know in order to be sure that you have a fair contract.

sabian

How do you get through wrtiters block, and being overwhelmed?

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You know, sabian, I think writers block is mainly a problem because we're afraid it will never end?

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There are lots of times when I just don't feel that the words work. I guess that's writers block for me.

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But after all this time, I know that I can go plant corn, or make curtains, or go tracking with my dogs and forget that I'm a writer. Sooner or later, I'll suddenly realize I NEED to get back to the keyboard.

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It's like having insomnia and worrying that you're going to be tired tomorrow! Great way to keep yourself awake!

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If you can tell yourself, fine, I quit (for awhile), you'll recharge. Of course...if you have a dealine that's a bit different.

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Then you just do it anyway and realize it's not as bad as it feels!

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As to being overwhelmed (me, i live about four lives...) notes are a good thing! I've 'written' entire novels in piles of scribbled notes!

vernaculady

My mother-in-law and I are attending our first SCBWI Writer's Retreat together. Would it be tacky introducing each another as relatives?

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Good for you! Of COURSE introduce each other as relatives! You'll get lots of applause, I'm sure.

mariana

1st or third person in mid-grade novels? which plays best?

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I've been talking about first versus third person quite a bit over on LRWG. We have a couple of good articles on it, too, in Writing Craft. As to better? It depends.

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I would say that of the books my mid-grade students read, I see more third than first person. Don't forget that you can do much more description in third person...

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and if that narrator's voice doesn't appeal to the reader, then the book isn't going to appeal to them either.

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You know, I neglected to ask Mel if his forum is one hour or two?

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Since we're past our first hour, and I suspect we could do this all afternoon! :-)

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Thanks Kay Kay! One hour it is...I do want to answer a couple more questions, however.

emi

but you do think outlining is an essential part of ms preparation?

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Not if it doesn't work for you, emi! There is only one RULE in writing...it has to work.

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Whatever works for you is the right way to do things. I know some very well published writers who never outline ANYTHING.

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They don't even know what the plot is...well, vaguely...when the sit down to type page one.

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So do it your way. If that isn't working for you, try a different way.

navarrejudy

is there an optimal number of words for YA novel? 11-13 yrs.

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Generally they're pretty short...70 -80 thousand words. But not always. Golden Compass is a thick fantasy, and I see a lot of 12 - 13 year olds reading it. But for an age group closer to 11, I'd keep it shorter.

walkinggrl

how about sending multiple pieces to the same mag at once?

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Last question,all, and then I need to get some of my own work done! Walkinggrl, there IS a problem with the 'at once' approach.

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If I have three of your stories on my desk and I love one and think the other two are pretty good...

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I'll buy the one I love. If you send them to me one at a time, I may buy the first, like the second even better and buy that one, too, then buy the third because it's as good as the others.

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And I have been told this by editors, it's not a guess!

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Well, it has been a lot of fun, folks! I'm glad I could offer some help.

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And I'm looking forward to next Tuesday!

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Feel free to drop over to the LRWG website. I do Forums on Tuesdays and Fridays...times are posted on our Calendar of Events page.

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I'm always happy to answer questions!

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And I do cover specific topics at our Forums as well.

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Thank you all for having me!

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See you all next Tuesday!

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Have a good week!

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Bye all!