mel boring

Good afternoon! Welcome to this Tuesday afternoon's "Open Forum" session. I'm your moderator, Mel Boring, and the Web Editor for this site. We're back for an informal time of answering any questions you might like to ask, on any subject. So feel free to ask what's on your mind--and I'll tell you what's on mine! First, please read these announcements, then we'll get started.

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I have two reading recommendations before we even begin....

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They are books to read about writing for children. One is a new one I did not know, by Jane Yolen,...

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It's called TAKE JOY.

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The other is THE ABC'S OF WRITING FOR CHILDREN by Elizabeth Koehler Pentacoff....

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BOTH these books were recommended recently on a discussion board by Marianne Dyson--THANKS, Marianne!

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Here is the first of some very good pre-submitted questions....

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I have an article I want to try out in the market. I've selected a potential magazine. My problem is I have never had anything published before. How do I as a never been published student get my foot in the door?

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Excellent question from this student. First of all,...

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you are doing the RIGHT thing simply by PLANNING before you submit....

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That way, it isn't just a "shotgun approach" to the marketplace, but a thought-out endeavor....

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Look at the listings in the market guide you use, whether ICL's CHILDREN'S MAGAZINE MARKET,...

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or CHILDREN'S WRITERS AND ILLUSTRATORS MARKET put out annually by Writer's Digest Magazine....

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Look for an index of SUBJECTS and try to find your subject among them; that will give you pages of magazines interested in THAT subject....

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Then look in the listings to see if they want a QUERY first, or the WHOLE MANUSCRIPT....

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For a beginning, I would recommend that you send your article to those mags that want to see the WHOLE MANUSCRIPT first, because...

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that will not need a query letter, which you'll want to learn the art of first....

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Then go ahead and submit the article--and PLEASE let us know the outcome, will you?

grandy1983

How in the world can I stay focused on my writing? I always

grandy1983

...get distracted by something else and never get back to it

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I KNOW what you mean, grandy1983! JUST this morning, I intended to continue work on a novel that an editor has asked for a revision of....

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But I haven't gotten to it yet today! First of all, my wife and I had an appointed to see someone this morning--unavoidable....

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But then I got started catching up on some easier work after that, and haven't gotten to my novel yet....

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What I think is that writing is HARD WORK--the hardest I've ever done....

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and other things are easier, so I tend to do them instead....

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Here's what I'd suggest, grandy1983: Tomorrow, get up a HALF HOUR earlier, and make a covenant with yourself that you will spend that HALF HOUR only on your writing....

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It's only 30 minutes, but it may be 30 minutes more than you spent last time....

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AND that 30 minutes might lead to 30 minutes withOUT getting up earlier the next day....

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And THAT 30 minutes might lead to an HOUR the next time....

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Go at it in "small doses," and see if that doesn't whet your appetite more for the hard work of writing.

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Here's som good advice about this from lizr:...

lizr

One thing I learned to do to try to stay focussed on writing and my writing time - I set aside a chair special pen and a notebook just for writing- it trained my mind and body to get focussed - kind of like putting on sneakers when you want to go for a walk or play tennis

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THANKS, lizr, that's a SUPER idea!

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where can I find a list of publishers for a story about a long ago teenager in medieval Russia who engages many conflicts and survives. 65,000 words first draft and query letter is ready?

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Here is another pre-submitted question, from bill....

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First of all, if it is truly a STORY only, bill, 65,000 words is too long....

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If it is, however, as I suspect, a BOOK, then it may not be too long for children,...

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if you find the right market. Go to your ICL CHILDREN'S MAGAZINE MARKET, if you have it, and look in the back index for a subject like "History" or "Multicultural,"...

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and go to the specific market pages for specific magazines listed there....

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Peruse their listings, and see which ones would like your PARTICULAR article--IF it is an article....

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If it is a BOOK, use the CHILDREN'S BOOK MARKET and do the same procedure....

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If you DON'T have the ICL market books, use the CHILDREN'S WRITERS AND ILLUSTRATORS marketing book by Writer's Digest Magazine....

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Also, work on your query letter as LONG as it takes to make it as perfect as you can.

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Here

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is another GOOD question pre-submitted:...

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How do you know when you have reached the final stage of editing?

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This is both a GOOD and a TOUGH question, but it needs an answer for each of us....

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Others of you who have wisdom on this question, please send them along for me to post!...

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One KEY way I know I'm reaching the end of my editing is that I come BACK to words I used in the beginning....

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At least MY mind has a way of remembering, "Hey, I had that the first time!"....

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When this happens, I stop editing and get ready to submit the piece....

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Another way I can tell, crazy as it might sound, is if I have the confused feeling that I'm not sure WHAT is right for the editing....

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I have found by experience that PROBABLY what I have already is good, and the confusion is from the fact that I'm still searching! So I get to submitting it....

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Or course, if you have an editor's REQUEST to resubmit after revision, you can "check off the list" of their suggestions.

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Here's some wisdom from YOU:...

mbvoelker

I know I've reached the end of editing and am only being fussy if I change words or phrases one day and change them back the next. Also, I try to step back and ask "Is this honestly the best I can do right now with the skills I currently have?" If the answer is yes then I'm done and its time to send it off. If "no" then I have to crack the whip and finish it instead of playing with it.

mel boring

THANKS, MB! GREAT wisdom. There's lots to say for STOPPING work on the editing for a day or a week, and coming back fresh will show you SOME things about it.

grandy1983

When you're nitpicking every phrase, sentence...

grandy1983

...or paragraph for no apparent reason, you are finished...

grandy1983

...don't analyze every little thing, other you will NEVER...

grandy1983

...get around to submitting anything! You will also...

grandy1983

...most likely find yourself getting more frustrated than...

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I don't know how grandy1983 intended to finish this, but it is a great PEARL of wisdom....

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I am convinced that SOMEtimes when I get "lost in the editing" it is simply because I'm avoiding submitting it....

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After all, what the editor answers when I submit is the FINAL edit--even if it's a rejection!...

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But, as grandy1983 is saying, we can't let that FEAR stop us from stopping editing and submitting.

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Here's another pearl of wisdom:...

lizr

have a basic editing checklist for yourself - 'take out modifiers' use great verbs instead of adverbs to hold up the weak ones etc., then have someone check your origianl and your final drafts to make sure you haven't cut too much --which is my problem

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That checklist would give you a VERY definite idea of when you're DONE--thanks, lizr!

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Here is the end of grandy1983's post:...

grandy1983

...it's worth! When you feel good about the mss, STOP!!!!!

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When you feel good about it, that's the time to stop.

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Here's another from lizr:...

lizr

- send to the second -fourth choices on your list of publishers for that piece - if it comes back in 3 months - you will have grown as a writer and 'see' better with new eyes - to edit yet again

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THEN, I presume, lizr is saying AFTER the 2nd-4th choices, you can submit it to your FIRST choice--EXCELLENT stragegy!

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Here's ANOTHER slant on when editing is done, from grandy1983:...

grandy1983

I find that I'm doing with my nauscripts, and I've been...

grandy1983

...meaning to send one out in MARCH and I'm still...

grandy1983

...trying very hard to find every little error, which really

grandy1983

...drives me crazy, but sometimes you just have to know...

grandy1983

...when to stop, otherwise you will NEVER be able to stop!

mel boring

Know when to STOP--good. Maybe you've stopped before on a manuscript, and asking yourself what conditions you stopped under will help on the PRESENT manuscript.

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Here is lizr's P.S. to "words I took out of her mouth": (-:}

lizr

- that's right - then you're ready to send it to your first choice of publishers

mbvoelker

I edit in separate passes for different reasons. I do it on hardcopy using multiple color gel pens to keep things separate. One pass through will be in red looking at the line the plot follows, another will be green checking character voice. Finally comes the detail edit on a clean, new hardcopy with all the previous corrections made. That's where I finally allow myself to get fussy about precise word choice and phrasing. Doing it this way keeps me focused on editing specifics -- I can never go hypercritical and say "this stinks" because I always have a specific purpose for the edit.

mel boring

Using colored pens is a SUPER and SIMPLE suggestion!

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For those of you who joined us after we started, this is an "Open Forum" session where you are free to ask any writing and publishing questions you have, and your moderator (Mel Boring) will do his best to answer them--the sky isn't even the limit!

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That one question generated a LOT of VERY PRODUCTIVE discussion. You who contributed don't know how much you've helped ME in my writing project right now--THANKS!!!

grandy1983

What should I include in my bio accompanied with...

grandy1983

...an article I plan to submit to you? Anything specific?

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Thanks for asking, grandy1983!...

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Read the bio introductions to the articles posted on the ICL web site, first, to get an idea of...

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WHAT and HOW MUCH info I need....

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Also, think about providing a VARIETY of information, both about hard-copy magazines you've published in, and e-zines as well....

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I personally like SOME kind of "warm and humorous" information, which I seldom receive from submitters....

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For example, if a writer said they had written and published a book about...

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Yo-Yo's, maybe they were the champion yo-yo'er in their town or city or state....

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That gives some "spice" to the bio. And make sure the info is current....

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If you have NOT published before, and submit to the ICL web site, that's great. Then you can list stories/articles you ARE working on, or have submitted without a decision yet.

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I can't stress enough...

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that we need articles on the web site sections that are sparse...

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like STORY DIALOGUE, for one, and several of the WRITING TIPS sections....

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While I'm talking about this I need to tell you about a new decision by ICL to buy the rights to publish your articles on our site for...

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ONE YEAR instead of the SIX MONTHS it has been before now....

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That goes along with a trend we have ALL seen for publications to buy MORE rights, either ALL RIGHTS, or rights for a longer time, as on the web....

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It is a DIFFICULT situation for us writers. But I'm thinking it IS a trend...

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that we might have to accept on the INTERNET because of the toll 9/11 took and is still taking.

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My latest info on the changes in CRICKET vis-a-vis buying ALL RIGHTS is this:..

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They have stepped back SOME from ALWAYS requiring all rights....

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That is, they might negotiate more, and MAYBE only buy FIRST RIGHTS in some cases....

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But they also may want "non-exclusive" second rights, meaning that you could give OTHER publications Second Rights....

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But that DOES "take some of the shine off of" offering Second Rights, if they AREN'T exclusive, but may also be published in CRICKET at the same time.

kplano

What's the connection to 9/11 and this trend?

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EXCELLENT question, kplano! When the attacks of 9/11 took place, people were very scared....

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When they are scared, they stop spending their money so freely....

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So "extras" like many of the services of the Internet, took the hardest blows....

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If you were surfing the web on 9.11.01, and you've been surfing it since, you could see as well as sense that many "dot.com" companies just went out of business, others cut back....

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Here's an example, in my opinion....

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There is a web site for Ziff-Davis, where they used to give out common, ordinary software "samples" EVERY DAY....

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That is, they were software products you could try for free....

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SINCE 9/11, the ZDNet has cut out doing that, and is aiming their work more FOCUSEDLY toward BUSINESSES, rather than us individuals who may have tried the software and bought it.

casey

ICL buying for 1 year instead of 6 months - am I correct that we can't sell reprint rights for 1 year?

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I THINK so, casey, but that detail isn't completely worked out yet....

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They MIGHT want EXCLUSIVE rights for that year period....

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The policy is still being put out, and I will SOON get it into our Friday Update to let you know exactly what it means.

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THANKS for asking that, by the way, Casey!

margieh

What kinds of publishers are apt to buy something besides...

margieh

1st or all rights?

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Those would likely be SECOND RIGHTS, margieh....

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And SOME of the mags listed in the ICL CHILDREN'S MAGAZINE MARKET list Second Rights as one thing they will buy, so look those up.

margieh

(9/11)then didn't the anthrax scare affected regular mail...

margieh

in a similar way?

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Yes, for sure, margieh, in a kind of "continuum" with 9/11.

grandy1983

I like how you emphasize some words with CAPS! It's...

grandy1983

...so enthusiastic!

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THANKS, grandy1983. You know, working with editors, I hesitate to do that, because they mostly don't like it. BUt here it seems to work.

mbvoelker

I'm about to submit a 20 page manuscript to a publisher in England. Do you think the cost of return postage for the whole thing is worth it or ought I to only pay for a letter's worth of return postage and tell the editor that the manuscript is disposable? I hate to miss the chance that an editor might write a comment on the story but 20 pages is a heavy letter.

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In my OWN case, mbvoelker, I would find out what the charges would be....

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And if they were over my budget, then I would consider the "disposal route," though I hate the thought of that....

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If I COULD afford their returning the WHOLE manuscript, YES, any comments they wrote WOULD be

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"worth money" to me!

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By the way, MB, do you KNOW (I don't) how much it costs to send a 20-pager to England? It's be great if you could let us know.

lhaasman

I'm writing a novel that takes place in the US before 1940

lhaasman

and I want to show intolerance in a specific scene. I used

lhaasman

a popular anti-semetic chant and some writer's group people

lhaasman

think it is not "good"

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(I've been waiting for all the parts of this question because it's a VERY appropriate one...one moment, please!)

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I'll start on the question, ihaasman, because I think I'm getting the sense of it....

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You will find SOME editors who would feel like your writer's group people do, that it is not "politically correct" to print something like an anti-semitic chant....

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OTHER editors would WANT it to be included....

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What I would suggest is that you DO include it, and perhaps mention it in your cover letter....

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If you get a FORM REJECTION, they may not say anything at all about it....

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But SOME might must pen a sentence or two on their letter back to give you THEIR answer to that question....

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I have worked with editors who were VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT, and others who felt that this kind of thing is SALT, or seasoning, for an article or book....

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The trick is to FIND that editor/those editors who WANT that kind of "spice" in the writing, ihaasman.

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Here is an example. One editor/publisher would not let me say that Albert Einstein was...

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"mentally retarded," because that term is not USED today our of deference to those who are mentally impaired....

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But in the GERMAN for the expression attributed to Einstein, he was definitely said to be suspected as being "mentally retarded."...

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So HOW do you stay honest to the FACTS in light of political correctness?...

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My own answer that I've worked out is that if that is an objection to an editor, and I think it is IMPORTANT factualness, I will withdraw it and try another editor/publisher.

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It's time to stop, folks, but before we do,...

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I want to tell you that on the evening of JULY 16, we and Mary Rosenblum's Long Ridge Writers (our adult sister site)...

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will be getting together for a "TWO-SITE CHAT NIGHT."...

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It STARTS at 8PM CENTRAL time, and I hope as many of you can be there as possible....

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Mary and I will BOTH be fielding questions, as well as spotlighting YOUR comments....

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It should be FUN....

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So PLEASE put July 16, in the evening on your calendar....

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I apologize to YOU for whom it will be very LATE, but Mary is on the West Coast, so I wanted to accomodate her without making it too EARLY for her.

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See you next week!